"Dath ilani tend to be pretty conservative about passing that judgment.  They wouldn't even have told you that had too much self-interest, just that I had too little altruism - that I wanted too little, not too much.  And they wouldn't have said that about me, either, wouldn't have told me I was wrong to be what I was, just that I wasn't what they hoped their own kids would turn out like."

"Human beings, I was told, have an impulse for 'revenge'," he uses the Baseline term, "to hit somebody else back as hard as you think they've hit you, or harder, if you hold yourself injured by them.  That way, they won't dare injure you in the first place, right?  The obvious atomic problem with that baseline emotion, from the standpoint of the Law of Decision, is that it's a 'punishment', something you'd do if you expected the other agent to respond to threats.  The obvious problem with it molecularly is that if people disagree about who owes the net debt of revenge, they get locked into an infinite resonating retaliation.  The obvious problem with it globally is that if you've got lots of agents running around trying to invert each other's utility functions for acts of vengeance, it's pretty easy to imagine Reality as a whole getting into a state where everyone's utility functions are being inverted all the time and you'd all be better off unleashing Rovagug on the whole thing."

"So to first order, Civilization tells children, yeah, don't just flow along with your first instinct about revenge.  Channel it into something more organized, with better effects on the larger gameboard."

"When somebody stops coordinating with you, stop coordinating with them.  It's not 'punishment' to Defect against somebody who's Defecting against you, in a cooperation-defection dilemma; you're just withdrawing the Cooperation you were trying to coordinate with them.  It's not 'punishment' to catch a thief or send them to the Last Resort; it's simply not in your own interest to have them wandering around taking your stuff in the future."

"But you can still draw on something like a remaining trace of the emotion of revenge, for that.  And that reflects a meta-level policy of rescuing as many emotions as possible, rather than throwing them away and trying to run on pure Law."

"Dath ilani tend to be pretty conservative about passing that judgment.  They wouldn't even have told you that had too much self-interest, just that I had too little altruism - that I wanted too little, not too much.  And they wouldn't have said that about me, either, wouldn't have told me I was wrong to be what I was, just that I wasn't what they hoped their own kids would turn out like."

"Human beings, I was told, have an impulse for 'revenge'," he uses the Baseline term, "to hit somebody else back as hard as you think they've hit you, or harder, if you hold yourself injured by them.  That way, they won't dare injure you in the first place, right?  The obvious atomic problem with that baseline emotion, from the standpoint of the Law of Decision, is that it's a 'punishment', something you'd do if you expected the other agent to respond to threats.  The obvious problem with it molecularly is that if people disagree about who owes the net debt of revenge, they get locked into an infinite resonating retaliation.  The obvious problem with it globally is that if you've got lots of agents running around trying to invert each other's utility functions, for acts of vengeance or any other reason, it's pretty easy to imagine Reality as a whole getting into a state where everyone's utility functions are being inverted all the time and you'd all collectively prefer unleashing Rovagug on the whole thing."

"So to first order, Civilization tells children, yeah, don't just flow along with your first instinct about revenge.  Channel it into something more organized, with better effects on the larger gameboard."

"When somebody stops coordinating with you, stop coordinating with them.  It's not 'punishment' to Defect against somebody who's Defecting against you, in a cooperation-defection dilemma; you're just withdrawing the Cooperation you were trying to coordinate with them.  It's not 'punishment' to catch a thief or send them to the Last Resort; it's simply not in your own interest to have them wandering around taking your stuff in the future."

"But you can still draw on something like a remaining trace of the emotion of revenge, for that.  And that reflects a meta-level policy of rescuing as many emotions as possible, rather than throwing them away and trying to run on pure Law."

"Dath ilani tend to be pretty conservative about passing that judgment.  They wouldn't even have told you that I had too much self-interest, just that I had too little altruism - said that I wanted too little, not too much.  And they wouldn't have said that about me, either, wouldn't have told me I was wrong to be what I was.  Just, I wasn't what they hoped their own kids would turn out like."

"Human beings, I was told, have an impulse for 'revenge'," he uses the Baseline term, "to hit somebody else back as hard as you think they've hit you, or harder, if you hold yourself injured by them.  That way, they won't dare injure you in the first place, right?  The obvious atomic problem with that baseline emotion, from the standpoint of the Law of Decision, is that it's a 'punishment', something you'd do if you expected the other agent to respond to threats.  The obvious problem with it molecularly is that if people disagree about who owes the net debt of revenge, they get locked into an infinite resonating retaliation.  The obvious problem with it globally is that if you've got lots of agents running around trying to invert each other's utility functions, for acts of vengeance or any other reason, it's pretty easy to imagine Reality as a whole getting into a state where everyone's utility functions are being inverted all the time and you'd all collectively prefer unleashing Rovagug on the whole thing."

"So to first order, Civilization tells children, yeah, don't just flow along with your first instinct about revenge.  Channel it into something more organized, with better effects on the larger gameboard."

"When somebody stops coordinating with you, stop coordinating with them.  It's not 'punishment' to Defect against somebody who's Defecting against you, in a cooperation-defection dilemma; you're just withdrawing the Cooperation you were trying to coordinate with them.  It's not 'punishment' to catch a thief or send them to the Last Resort; it's simply not in your own interest to have them wandering around taking your stuff in the future."

"But you can still draw on something like a remaining trace of the emotion of revenge, for that.  And that reflects a meta-level policy of rescuing as many emotions as possible, rather than throwing them away and trying to run on pure Law."

"Dath ilani tend to be pretty conservative about passing that judgment.  They wouldn't even have told you that I had too much self-interest, just that I had too little altruism - said that I wanted too little, not too much.  And they wouldn't have said that about me, either, wouldn't have told me I was wrong to be what I was.  Just, I wasn't what they hoped their own kids would turn out like."

"Human beings, I was told as a kid, have a 'vengeful' impulse," he uses the Baseline word instead of Taldane, to name a feeling rather than an act, "to hit somebody else back as hard as you think they've hit you, or harder, if you hold yourself injured by them.  That way, they won't dare injure you in the first place, right?  The obvious atomic problem with that baseline emotion, from the standpoint of the Law of Decision, is that it's a 'punishment', something you'd do only because you expected the other agent to respond to threats.  The obvious problem with it molecularly is that if people disagree about who owes the net debt of revenge, they get locked into an infinite resonating retaliation.  The obvious problem with it globally is that if you've got lots of agents running around trying to invert each other's utility functions, for acts of vengeance or any other reason, it's pretty easy to imagine Reality as a whole getting into a state where everyone's utility functions are being inverted all the time and you'd all collectively prefer unleashing Rovagug on the whole thing."

"So to first order, Civilization tells children, yeah, don't just flow along with your first instinct about revenge.  Channel it into something more organized, with better effects on the larger gameboard."

"When somebody stops coordinating with you, stop coordinating with them.  It's not 'punishment' to Defect against somebody who's Defecting against you, in a cooperation-defection dilemma; you're just withdrawing the Cooperation you were trying to coordinate with them.  It's not 'punishment' to catch a thief or send them to the Last Resort; it's simply not in your own interest to have them wandering around taking your stuff in the future."

"But you can still draw on something like a remaining trace of the emotion of revenge, for that.  And that reflects a meta-level policy of rescuing as many emotions as possible, rather than throwing them away and trying to run on pure Law."