Edit History (Oldest to Newest)
Version: 1
Fields Changed (Original)
Updated
Content

Where Keltham was actually going with this is that burning fuel does not raise the surrounding temperature by a constant amount.  Chemical reactions don't produce a particular temperature.  They produce heat.

If you put colder fuel into a fire, more of that heat gets used up to heat the materials of the fuel itself, and the resulting temperature is lower.

The same thing goes for blowing colder air onto the fire - oh, air carries Element-8, which is a constituent in most ways that fuels made from the remains of living things, like wood or coal, rearrange themselves tighter and release heat, because living things have a lot of Element-6 that binds tightly to Element-8, among other things - you have to allow air into a fire to let it go on burning, but if it's colder air, the resulting fire will have a lower temperature.

Nobody has gotten Keltham any proper experts on metal forging to talk to, but the very preliminary glances he's had out of a couple of books, suggest that they are not trying to warm the air or fuel before burning it, which means that the reaction needs to use more fuel or more powerful fuel than is financially optimal.

One way to warm up the air and fuel is the reverse-flow method where you take the exhausted air from the burning-chamber and run that past the incoming air, so heat gets transferred from the exhausted air to the fresh air, and you can also do that with the fuel.

The other method, this being Golarion, might be to 'bind' a 'fire elemental', the same thing that powered hot water in the villa and presumably powers it here in this fortress, and get it to heat the fuel and air separately before they combust.

Given that forges don't just run off fire elementals in the first place, Keltham is guessing that fire elementals have a temperature rather than a heat output, and that temperature is too low to melt metal.  When you burn coal or other fuel, that in principle can just keep adding more and more heat, because the molecules go on rearranging themselves tighter and energy is conserved and must go somewhere.  The limiting factors are the starting temperature of the fuel and air, and heat that gets lost into the environment, which gets lost faster the higher the temperature goes.  On the other hand, Keltham is guessing that, once a fire elemental gets up to a certain temperature, it doesn't add any more heat than that.  So you need to use coal or other fuel, not just a fire elemental, to melt iron and make steel.

But people may not have realized that they could use less fuel, and maybe less expensive less powerful fuel, if they got a fire elemental to first heat up the ores, fuels, and airs, as high as they could go, and maybe then used some reverse-flow from the furnace exhausts to heat them up higher than that, before finally adding the fixed amount of heat from the fuel-burning reaction.

 

All of this does presume that fuel costs are even significant at all in forged metal costs.  Which is an example of why Keltham needs to talk to some actual folks currently making and selling metal in order to make any progress here.

Version: 2
Fields Changed Content
Updated
Content

Where Keltham was actually going with this is that burning fuel does not raise the surrounding temperature by a constant amount.  Chemical reactions don't produce a particular temperature.  They produce heat.  Temperature is how hot or cold something is, the average velocity of the randomly vibrating molecules inside it.  Heat is, abstractly, the energy you add to make molecules vibrate faster and the temperature go up.  Heat flows from hotter things to colder things because the molecules in contact bump into each other, and the slow molecules slow down the faster ones in the collision, and the fast molecules speed up the slower ones in the collision.

So if you put colder fuel into a fire, more of that heat gets used up to heat the materials of the fuel itself, and the resulting temperature is lower.

The same thing goes for blowing colder air onto the fire - oh, air carries Element-8, which is a constituent in most ways that fuels made from the remains of living things, like wood or coal, rearrange themselves tighter and release heat, because living things have a lot of Element-6 that binds tightly to Element-8, among other things - you have to allow air into a fire to let it go on burning, but if it's colder air, the resulting fire will have a lower temperature.

Nobody has gotten Keltham any proper experts on metal forging to talk to, but the very preliminary glances he's had out of a couple of books, suggest that they are not trying to warm the air or fuel before burning it, which means that the reaction needs to use more fuel or more powerful fuel than is financially optimal.

One way to warm up the air and fuel is the reverse-flow method, where you take the exhausted air from the burning-chamber and run that past the incoming air, so heat gets transferred from the exhausted air to the fresh air.  You can also do that to warm up the fuel before burning.

The other method, this being Golarion, might be to 'bind' a 'fire elemental', the same thing that powered hot water in the villa and presumably powers it here in this fortress, and get it to heat the fuel and air separately before they combust.

Given that forges don't just run off fire elementals in the first place, Keltham is guessing that fire elementals have a temperature rather than a heat output, and that temperature is too low to melt metal.  When you burn coal or other fuel, that in principle can just keep adding more and more heat, because the molecules go on rearranging themselves tighter and energy is conserved and must go somewhere.  The limiting factors are the starting temperature of the fuel and air, and heat that gets lost into the environment, which gets lost faster the higher the temperature goes.

On the other hand, Keltham is guessing that, once a fire elemental gets up to a certain temperature, it doesn't add any more heat than that.

So you need to use coal or other fuel, not just a fire elemental, to melt iron and make steel.

But people may not have realized that a major forge could use less fuel, and maybe less expensive less powerful fuel, if they got a fire elemental to first heat up the ores, fuels, and airs, as high as the fire elemental's temperature, and maybe then used some reverse-flow from the furnace exhausts to heat them up higher than that, before finally adding the fixed amount of heat from the fuel-burning reaction.

 

All of this does presume that fuel costs are even significant at all in forged metal costs.  Which is an example of why Keltham needs to talk to some actual folks currently making and selling metal in order to make any progress here.

And if no single forge in Cheliax melts enough ore to make it worth the cost of adding a fire elemental, Keltham is going to have to introduce the concept of "economies of scale", which is when you have a big forge that melts enough ore to make it worth adding a fire elemental.

Version: 3
Fields Changed Content
Updated
Content

Where Keltham was actually going with this is that burning fuel does not raise the surrounding temperature by a constant amount.  Chemical reactions don't produce a particular temperature.  They produce heat.  Temperature is how hot or cold something is, the average velocity of the randomly vibrating molecules inside it.  Heat is, abstractly, the energy you add to make molecules vibrate faster and the temperature go up.  Heat flows from hotter things to colder things because the molecules in contact bump into each other, and the slow molecules slow down the faster ones in the collision, and the fast molecules speed up the slower ones in the collision.

So if you put colder fuel into a fire, more of that heat gets used up to heat the materials of the fuel itself, and the resulting temperature is lower.

The same thing goes for blowing colder air onto the fire - oh, air carries Element-8, which is a constituent in most ways that fuels made from the remains of living things, like wood or coal, rearrange themselves tighter and release heat, because living things have a lot of Element-6 that binds tightly to Element-8, among other things - you have to allow air into a fire to let it go on burning, but if it's colder air, the resulting fire will have a lower temperature.

Nobody has gotten Keltham any proper experts on metal forging to talk to, but the very preliminary glances he's had out of a couple of books, suggest that they are not trying to warm the air or fuel before burning it, which means that the reaction needs to use more fuel or more powerful fuel than is financially optimal.

One way to warm up the air and fuel is the reverse-flow method, where you take the exhausted air from the burning-chamber and run that past the incoming air, so heat gets transferred from the exhausted air to the fresh air.  You can also do that to warm up the fuel before burning.

The other method, this being Golarion, might be to 'bind' a 'fire elemental', the same thing that powered hot water in the villa and presumably powers it here in this fortress, and get it to heat the fuel and air separately before they combust.

Given that forges don't just run off fire elementals in the first place, Keltham is guessing that fire elementals have a temperature rather than a heat output, and that temperature is too low to melt metal.  When you burn coal or other fuel, that in principle can just keep adding more and more heat, because the molecules go on rearranging themselves tighter and energy is conserved and must go somewhere.  The limiting factors are the starting temperature of the fuel and air, and heat that gets lost into the environment, which gets lost faster the higher the temperature goes.

On the other hand, Keltham is guessing that, once a fire elemental gets up to a certain temperature, it doesn't add any more heat than that.

So you need to use coal or other fuel, not just a fire elemental, to melt iron and make steel.

But people may not have realized that a major forge could use less fuel, and maybe less expensive less powerful fuel, if they got a fire elemental to first heat up the ores, fuels, and airs, as high as the fire elemental's temperature, and maybe then used some reverse-flow from the furnace exhausts to heat them up higher than that, before finally adding the fixed amount of heat from the fuel-burning reaction.

 

All of this does presume that fuel costs are even significant at all in forged metal costs.  Which is an example of why Keltham needs to talk to some actual folks currently making and selling metal in order to make any progress here.

Or if no single refinery or forge in Cheliax uses enough fuel to make it worth the cost of adding a fire elemental, Keltham is going to have to introduce the concept of "economies of scale", which is when you have a large-enough refinery or forge to make it worth adding a fire elemental.

Version: 4
Fields Changed Content
Updated
Content

Where Keltham was actually going with this is that burning fuel does not raise the surrounding temperature by a constant amount.  Chemical reactions don't produce a particular temperature.  They produce heat.  Temperature is how hot or cold something is, the average velocity of the randomly vibrating molecules inside it.  Heat is, abstractly, the energy you add to make molecules vibrate faster and the temperature go up.  Heat flows from hotter things to colder things because the molecules in contact bump into each other, and the slow molecules slow down the faster ones in the collision, and the fast molecules speed up the slower ones in the collision.

So if you put colder fuel into a fire, more of that heat gets used up to heat the materials of the fuel itself, and the resulting temperature is lower.

The same thing goes for blowing colder air onto the fire - oh, air carries Element-8, which is a constituent in most ways that fuels made from the remains of living things, like wood or coal, rearrange themselves tighter and release heat, because living things have a lot of Element-6 that binds tightly to Element-8, among other things - you have to allow air into a fire to let it go on burning, but if it's colder air, the resulting fire will have a lower temperature.

Nobody has gotten Keltham any proper experts on metal forging to talk to, but the very preliminary glances he's had out of a couple of books, suggest that they are not trying to warm the air or fuel before burning it, which means that the reaction needs to use more fuel or more powerful fuel than is financially optimal.

One way to warm up the air and fuel is the reverse-flow method, where you take the exhausted air from the burning-chamber and run that past the incoming air, so heat gets transferred from the exhausted air to the fresh air.  You can also do that to warm up the fuel before burning.

The other method, this being Golarion, might be to 'bind' a 'fire elemental', the same thing that powered hot water in the villa and presumably powers it here in this fortress, and get it to heat the fuel and air separately before they combust.

Given that forges don't just run off fire elementals in the first place, Keltham is guessing that fire elementals have a temperature rather than a heat output, and that temperature is too low to melt metal.  When you burn coal or other fuel, that in principle can just keep adding more and more heat, because the molecules go on rearranging themselves tighter and energy is conserved and must go somewhere.  The limiting factors are the starting temperature of the fuel and air, and heat that gets lost into the environment, which gets lost faster the higher the temperature goes.

On the other hand, Keltham is guessing that, once a fire elemental gets up to a certain temperature, it doesn't add any more heat than that.

So you need to use coal or other fuel, not just a fire elemental, to melt iron and make steel.

But people may not have realized that a major forge could use less fuel, and maybe less expensive less powerful fuel, if they got a fire elemental to first heat up the ores, fuels, and airs, as high as the fire elemental's temperature, and maybe then used some reverse-flow from the furnace exhausts to heat them up higher than that, before finally adding the fixed amount of heat from the fuel-burning reaction.

 

All of this does presume that fuel costs are even significant at all in forged metal costs.  Which is an example of why Keltham needs to talk to some actual folks currently making and selling metal in order to make any progress here.

Or if no single refinery or forge in Cheliax uses enough fuel to make it worth the cost of adding a fire elemental, Keltham is going to have to introduce the concept of "economies of scale", which is when you have a large-enough refinery or forge to make it worth adding a fire elemental.

Just to state the obvious out loud, all these ideas, should they not already be in circulation, are covered by the compact the Project has signed with Cheliax, and may not be used within Cheliax except by paying the Project enormous patentgratuities on them, and are to be held under lesser-but-real conditions of Security so as to lengthen the amount of time they may be profited-from before Chaotic people start using them without paying patentgratuities and thus undercutting the market.

Version: 5
Fields Changed Content
Updated
Content

Where Keltham was actually going with this is that burning fuel does not raise the surrounding temperature by a constant amount.  Chemical reactions don't produce a particular temperature.  They produce heat.  Temperature is how hot or cold something is, the average velocity of the randomly vibrating molecules inside it.  Heat is, abstractly, the energy you add to make molecules vibrate faster and the temperature go up.  Heat flows from hotter things to colder things because the molecules in contact bump into each other, and the slow molecules slow down the faster ones in the collision, and the fast molecules speed up the slower ones in the collision.

So if you put colder fuel into a fire, more of that heat gets used up to heat the materials of the fuel itself, and the resulting temperature is lower.

The same thing goes for blowing colder air onto the fire - oh, air carries Element-8, which is a constituent in most ways that fuels made from the remains of living things, like wood or coal, rearrange themselves tighter and release heat, because living things have a lot of Element-6 that binds tightly to Element-8, among other things - you have to allow air into a fire to let it go on burning, but if it's colder air, the resulting fire will have a lower temperature.

Nobody has gotten Keltham any proper experts on metal forging to talk to, but the very preliminary glances he's had out of a couple of books, suggest that they are not trying to warm the air or fuel before burning it, which means that the reaction needs to use more fuel or more powerful fuel than is financially optimal.

One way to warm up the air and fuel is the reverse-flow method, where you take the exhausted air from the burning-chamber and run that past the incoming air, so heat gets transferred from the exhausted air to the fresh air.  You can also do that to warm up the fuel before burning.

The other method, this being Golarion, might be to 'bind' a 'fire elemental', the same thing that powered hot water in the villa and presumably powers it here in this fortress, and get it to heat the fuel and air separately before they combust.

Given that forges don't just run off fire elementals in the first place, Keltham is guessing that fire elementals have a temperature rather than a heat output, and that this maximum temperature is too low to melt metal.  When you burn coal or other fuel, that in principle can just keep adding more and more heat, because the molecules go on rearranging themselves tighter, and that energy is conserved and must go somewhere.  The limiting factors are the starting temperature of the fuel and air; and heat that gets lost into the environment, which gets lost faster the higher the temperature goes.

On the other hand, Keltham is guessing that, once a fire elemental gets up to a certain temperature, it doesn't add any more heat than that.

So you need to use coal or other fuel, not just a fire elemental, to get a temperature high enough to refine iron ore or forge steel.

But people may not have realized that a major forge could use less fuel, and maybe less expensive fuel, if they got a fire elemental to first heat up the ores, fuels, and airs, as high as the fire elemental's temperature, and maybe then used some reverse-flow from the furnace exhausts to heat the inputs higher than that, before finally adding the fixed amount of heat from the fuel-burning reaction.

 

All of this does presume that fuel costs are even significant at all in forged metal costs.  Which is an example of why Keltham needs to talk to some actual folks currently making and selling metal at SCALE in order to make any progress here.

Or if no single refinery or forge in Cheliax uses enough fuel to make it worth the cost of adding a fire elemental, Keltham is going to have to introduce the concept of "economies of scale", which is when you have a large-enough refinery or forge to make it worth adding a fire elemental.

Just to state the obvious out loud, all these ideas, should they not already be in circulation, are covered by the compact the Project has signed with Cheliax; and may not be used within Cheliax except by paying the Project enormous patentgratuities on them; and are to be held under lesser-but-real conditions of Security, so as to lengthen the amount of time they may be profited-from before Chaotic people start using them without paying patentgratuities and thus undercutting the market.

Version: 6
Fields Changed Content
Updated
Content

Where Keltham was actually going with this is that burning fuel does not raise the surrounding temperature by a constant amount.  Chemical reactions don't produce a particular temperature.  They produce heat.  Temperature is how hot or cold something is, the average velocity of the randomly vibrating molecules inside it.  Heat is, abstractly, the energy you add to make molecules vibrate faster and the temperature go up.  Heat flows from hotter things to colder things because the molecules in contact bump into each other, and the slow molecules slow down the faster ones in the collision, and the fast molecules speed up the slower ones in the collision.

So if you put colder fuel into a fire, more of that heat gets used up to heat the materials of the fuel itself, and the resulting temperature is lower.

The same thing goes for blowing colder air onto the fire - oh, air carries Element-8, which is a constituent in most ways that fuels made from the remains of living things, like wood or coal, rearrange themselves tighter and release heat, because living things have a lot of Element-6 that binds tightly to Element-8, among other things - you have to allow air into a fire to let it go on burning, but if it's colder air, the resulting fire will have a lower temperature.

Nobody has gotten Keltham any proper experts on metal forging to talk to, but the very preliminary glances he's had out of a couple of books, suggest that they are not trying to warm the air or fuel before burning it, which means that the reaction needs to use more fuel or more powerful fuel than is financially optimal.

One way to warm up the air and fuel is the reverse-flow method, where you take the exhausted air from the burning-chamber and run that past the incoming air, so heat gets transferred from the exhausted air to the fresh air.  You can also do that to warm up the fuel before burning.

The other method, this being Golarion, might be to 'bind' a 'fire elemental', the same thing that powered hot water in the villa and presumably powers it here in this fortress, and get it to heat the fuel and air separately before they combust.

Given that forges don't just run off fire elementals in the first place, Keltham is guessing that fire elementals have a temperature rather than a heat output, and that this maximum temperature is too low to melt metal.  When you burn coal or other fuel, that in principle can just keep adding more and more heat, because the molecules go on rearranging themselves tighter, and that energy is conserved and must go somewhere.  The limiting factors are the starting temperature of the fuel and air; and heat that gets lost into the environment, which gets lost faster the higher the temperature goes.

On the other hand, Keltham is guessing that, once a fire elemental gets up to a certain temperature, it doesn't add any more heat than that.

So you need to use coal or other fuel, not just a fire elemental, to get a temperature high enough to refine iron ore or forge steel.

But people may not have realized that a major forge could use less fuel, and maybe less expensive fuel, if they got a fire elemental to first heat up the ores, fuels, and airs, as high as the fire elemental's temperature, and maybe then used some reverse-flow from the furnace exhausts to heat the inputs higher than that, before finally adding the fixed amount of heat from the fuel-burning reaction.

 

All of this does presume that fuel costs are significant at all in forged metal costs.  Which is an example of why Keltham needs to talk to some actual folks currently making and selling metal, at scale, in order to make any progress here.

Or if no single refinery or forge in Cheliax uses enough fuel to make it worth the cost of adding a fire elemental, Keltham is going to have to introduce the concept of "economies of scale", which is when you have a large-enough refinery or forge to make it worth adding a fire elemental.

Just to state the obvious out loud, all these ideas, should they not already be in circulation, are covered by the compact the Project has signed with Cheliax; and may not be used within Cheliax except by paying the Project enormous patentgratuities on them; and are to be held under lesser-but-real conditions of Security, so as to lengthen the amount of time they may be profited-from before Chaotic people start using them without paying patentgratuities and thus undercutting the market.

Version: 7
Fields Changed Content
Updated
Content

Where Keltham was actually going with this is that burning fuel does not raise the surrounding temperature by a constant amount.  Chemical reactions don't produce a particular temperature.  They produce heat.  Temperature is how hot or cold something is, the average velocity of the randomly vibrating molecules inside it.  Heat is, abstractly, the energy you add to make molecules vibrate faster and the temperature go up.  Heat flows from hotter things to colder things because the molecules in contact bump into each other, and the slow molecules slow down the faster ones in the collision, and the fast molecules speed up the slower ones in the collision.

So if you put colder fuel into a fire, more of that heat gets used up to heat the materials of the fuel itself, and the resulting temperature is lower.

The same thing goes for blowing colder air onto the fire - oh, air carries Element-8, which is a constituent in most ways that fuels made from the remains of living things, like wood or coal, rearrange themselves tighter and release heat, because living things have a lot of Element-6 that binds tightly to Element-8, among other things - so you have to allow air into a fire to let it go on burning - but if it's colder air, the resulting fire will have a lower temperature.

Nobody has gotten Keltham any proper experts on metal forging to talk to, but the very preliminary glances he's had out of a couple of books, suggest that they are not trying to warm the air or fuel before burning it, which means that the reaction needs to use more fuel or more powerful fuel than is financially optimal.

One way to warm up the air and fuel is the reverse-flow method, where you take the exhausted air from the burning-chamber and run that past the incoming air, so heat gets transferred from the exhausted air to the fresh air.  You can also do that to warm up the fuel before burning.

The other method, this being Golarion, might be to 'bind' a 'fire elemental', the same thing that powered hot water in the villa and presumably powers it here in this fortress, and get it to heat the fuel and air separately before they combust.

Given that forges don't just run off fire elementals in the first place, Keltham is guessing that fire elementals have a temperature rather than a heat output, and that this maximum temperature is too low to melt metal.  When you burn coal or other fuel, that in principle can just keep adding more and more heat, because the molecules go on rearranging themselves tighter, and that energy is conserved and must go somewhere.  The limiting factors are the starting temperature of the fuel and air; and heat that gets lost into the environment, which gets lost faster the higher the temperature goes.

On the other hand, Keltham is guessing that, once a fire elemental gets up to a certain temperature, it doesn't add any more heat than that.

So you need to use coal or other fuel, not just a fire elemental, to get a temperature high enough to refine iron ore or forge steel.

But people may not have realized that a forge could use less fuel, and maybe less expensive fuel, if they used a fire elemental to first heat up the ores, fuels, and airs, as high as the fire elemental's temperature, and maybe then used some reverse-flow from the furnace exhausts to heat the inputs higher than that, before finally adding the fixed amount of heat from the fuel-burning reaction.

 

All of this does presume that fuel costs are significant at all in forged metal costs.  Which is an example of why Keltham needs to talk to some actual folks currently making and selling metal, at scale, in order to make any progress here.

Or if no single refinery or forge in Cheliax uses enough fuel to make it worth the cost of adding a fire elemental, Keltham is going to have to introduce the concept of "economies of scale", which is when you have a large-enough refinery or forge to make it worth adding a fire elemental.

Just to state the obvious out loud, all these ideas, should they not already be in circulation, are covered by the compact the Project has signed with Cheliax; and may not be used within Cheliax except by paying the Project enormous patentgratuities on them; and are to be held under lesser-but-real conditions of Security, so as to lengthen the amount of time they may be profited-from before Chaotic people start using them without paying patentgratuities and thus undercutting the market.

Version: 8
Fields Changed Content
Updated
Content

Where Keltham was actually going with this is that burning fuel does not raise the surrounding temperature by a constant amount.  Chemical reactions don't produce a particular temperature.  They produce heat...

...He should probably actually define those things.  Temperature is how hot or cold something is, the average velocity of the randomly vibrating molecules inside it.  Heat is, abstractly, the energy you add to make molecules vibrate faster and the temperature go up.  Heat flows from hotter things to colder things because the molecules in contact bump into each other, and the slow molecules slow down the faster ones in the collision, and the fast molecules speed up the slower ones in the collision.

So if you put colder fuel into a fire, more of that heat gets used up to heat the materials of the fuel itself, and the resulting temperature is lower.

The same thing goes for blowing colder air onto the fire - oh, air carries Element-8, which is a constituent in most ways that fuels made from the remains of living things, like wood or coal, rearrange themselves tighter and release heat, because living things have a lot of Element-6 that binds tightly to Element-8, among other things - so you have to allow air into a fire to let it go on burning - but if it's colder air, the resulting fire will have a lower temperature.

Nobody has gotten Keltham any proper experts on metal forging to talk to, but the very preliminary glances he's had out of a couple of books, suggest that they are not trying to warm the air or fuel before burning it, which means that the reaction needs to use more fuel or more powerful fuel than is financially optimal.

One way to warm up the air and fuel is the reverse-flow method, where you take the exhausted air from the burning-chamber and run that past the incoming air, so heat gets transferred from the exhausted air to the fresh air.  You can also do that to warm up the fuel before burning.

The other method, this being Golarion, might be to 'bind' a 'fire elemental', the same thing that powered hot water in the villa and presumably powers it here in this fortress, and get it to heat the fuel and air separately before they combust.

Given that forges don't just run off fire elementals in the first place, Keltham is guessing that fire elementals have a temperature rather than a heat output, and that this maximum temperature is too low to melt metal.  When you burn coal or other fuel, that in principle can just keep adding more and more heat, because the molecules go on rearranging themselves tighter, and that energy is conserved and must go somewhere.  The limiting factors are the starting temperature of the fuel and air; and heat that gets lost into the environment, which gets lost faster the higher the temperature goes.

On the other hand, Keltham is guessing that, once a fire elemental gets up to a certain temperature, it doesn't add any more heat than that.

So you need to use coal or other fuel, not just a fire elemental, to get a temperature high enough to refine iron ore or forge steel.

But people may not have realized that a forge could use less fuel, and maybe less expensive fuel, if they used a fire elemental to first heat up the ores, fuels, and airs, as high as the fire elemental's temperature, and maybe then used some reverse-flow from the furnace exhausts to heat the inputs higher than that, before finally adding the fixed amount of heat from the fuel-burning reaction.

 

All of this does presume that fuel costs are significant at all in forged metal costs.  Which is an example of why Keltham needs to talk to some actual folks currently making and selling metal, at scale, in order to make any progress here.

Or if no single refinery or forge in Cheliax uses enough fuel to make it worth the cost of adding a fire elemental, Keltham is going to have to introduce the concept of "economies of scale", which is when you have a large-enough refinery or forge to make it worth adding a fire elemental.

Just to state the obvious out loud, all these ideas, should they not already be in circulation, are covered by the compact the Project has signed with Cheliax; and may not be used within Cheliax except by paying the Project enormous patentgratuities on them; and are to be held under lesser-but-real conditions of Security, so as to lengthen the amount of time they may be profited-from before Chaotic people start using them without paying patentgratuities and thus undercutting the market.

Version: 9
Fields Changed Content
Updated
Content

Where Keltham was actually going with this is that burning fuel does not raise the surrounding temperature by a constant amount.  Chemical reactions don't produce a particular temperature.  They produce heat...

...He should probably actually define those things.  Temperature is how hot or cold something is, the average speed of the randomly vibrating molecules inside it.  Heat is, abstractly, the energy you add to make molecules vibrate faster and the temperature go up.  Heat flows from hotter things to colder things because the molecules in contact bump into each other, and the slow molecules slow down the faster ones in the collision, and the fast molecules speed up the slower ones in the collision.

So if you put colder fuel into a fire, more of that heat gets used up to heat the materials of the fuel itself, and the resulting temperature is lower.

The same thing goes for blowing colder air onto the fire - oh, air carries Element-8, which is a constituent in most ways that fuels made from the remains of living things, like wood or coal, rearrange themselves tighter and release heat, because living things have a lot of Element-6 that binds tightly to Element-8, among other things - so you have to allow air into a fire to let it go on burning - but if it's colder air, the resulting fire will have a lower temperature.

Nobody has gotten Keltham any proper experts on metal forging to talk to, but the very preliminary glances he's had out of a couple of books, suggest that they are not trying to warm the air or fuel before burning it, which means that the reaction needs to use more fuel or more powerful fuel than is financially optimal.

One way to warm up the air and fuel is the reverse-flow method, where you take the exhausted air from the burning-chamber and run that past the incoming air, so heat gets transferred from the exhausted air to the fresh air.  You can also do that to warm up the fuel before burning.

The other method, this being Golarion, might be to 'bind' a 'fire elemental', the same thing that powered hot water in the villa and presumably powers it here in this fortress, and get it to heat the fuel and air separately before they combust.

Given that forges don't just run off fire elementals in the first place, Keltham is guessing that fire elementals have a temperature rather than a heat output, and that this maximum temperature is too low to melt metal.  When you burn coal or other fuel, that in principle can just keep adding more and more heat, because the molecules go on rearranging themselves tighter, and that energy is conserved and must go somewhere.  The limiting factors are the starting temperature of the fuel and air; and heat that gets lost into the environment, which gets lost faster the higher the temperature goes.

On the other hand, Keltham is guessing that, once a fire elemental gets up to a certain temperature, it doesn't add any more heat than that.

So you need to use coal or other fuel, not just a fire elemental, to get a temperature high enough to refine iron ore or forge steel.

But people may not have realized that a forge could use less fuel, and maybe less expensive fuel, if they used a fire elemental to first heat up the ores, fuels, and airs, as high as the fire elemental's temperature, and maybe then used some reverse-flow from the furnace exhausts to heat the inputs higher than that, before finally adding the fixed amount of heat from the fuel-burning reaction.

 

All of this does presume that fuel costs are significant at all in forged metal costs.  Which is an example of why Keltham needs to talk to some actual folks currently making and selling metal, at scale, in order to make any progress here.

Or if no single refinery or forge in Cheliax uses enough fuel to make it worth the cost of adding a fire elemental, Keltham is going to have to introduce the concept of "economies of scale", which is when you have a large-enough refinery or forge to make it worth adding a fire elemental.

Just to state the obvious out loud, all these ideas, should they not already be in circulation, are covered by the compact the Project has signed with Cheliax; and may not be used within Cheliax except by paying the Project enormous patentgratuities on them; and are to be held under lesser-but-real conditions of Security, so as to lengthen the amount of time they may be profited-from before Chaotic people start using them without paying patentgratuities and thus undercutting the market.