"It's the response to the pain that matters to my 'gendertrope', I think, not just inflicting the pain itself.  Limiting case, imagine trying to do that to the body of somebody who's currently in Hell and before they get Raised.  This tells you that any internal response is necessary, not just going through the outward motions.  Turns out the particular response also matters."

"It's the response to the pain that matters to my 'gendertrope', I think, not just inflicting the pain itself.  Limiting case, imagine trying to do that to the body of somebody who's currently in Hell and before they get Raised.  This tells you that any internal response is necessary, not just going through the outward motions.  Turns out the particular response also matters."